Prop 8: Here Come the Death Threats

It's getting ugly in California over Proposition 8.

Here is a death threat letter (NSFW), issued on October 20th, 2008 to two of ten households in a California neighborhood where "Vote Yes on Prop 8" signs were being displayed.  Their signs had been stolen by the time they found the letter.

The person who provided me a copy of this letter, who wishes to remain anonymous at this time for obvious reasons, is a head of one of two households to have received identically worded death threats, laced with profanity and insults.  The recipient stated that, due to certain phrases and words used in the letter, the writer of the threat likely knows something about the religious background of the two households.

This is the second time that  this family has had their signs stolen in only a few days.  A police investigation is underway.

 

 

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Despicable

It is not sensational to say, that this is frightening... to say the least.  It is also sickening, that someone would feel that they have the "right", to express thier opinion is such a violent way. 

My heart goes out to these families, who have only done that which is within their "right" and have legally displayed their support for something they believe in deeply. 

Proposition 8 in California, is causing many people to take a stand for what they believe is best for society.  I stand in support of a YES VOTE on Prop 8, and have also had my sign stolen; as many Californians have... but this type of assault goes beyond the simple snatching of signs.

Not only are YES on 8 signs being stolen in growing numbers "nightly"; but rocks are being thrown at supporters of YES on 8, as they wave signs on corners; others have actually been physically assaulted to the point of needindg medical attention; cars with YES on 8 bumper stickers are being vandalized....  I could go on.

We are now wondering if we should be concerned for the safety of all of our young people, who are standing on these corners, waving signs in what is supposed to be an "American" way - to speak out?

The reports of similar activity coming out of the opposition -  are minimal in comparison. 

This is unacceptable.  I am hoping that authoriities take this very seriously and are able to identify this dangerous person(s) and prosecute.

One fears, what will happen when Prop 8 passes???

Thank you for posting this.

tDMg

NanaWrite ON

All The Noise, Noise, Noise

 

No matter how loudly and often supporters of same gender marriage attack proponents of traditional marriage, the simple irrefutable fact is that same gender marriage and traditional marriage are not identical, and never will be.  Period.  Regardless of what happens in the California election. 

 

And no matter what proponents of traditional marriage say, opponents will scream its opposite.  I am amazed at the sheer volume of hateful and intolerant comments made by opponents of Proposition 8.  To me, this speaks volumes about where bigotry, discrimination, and hate truly exist – in the hearts of people who express themselves with such rage and venom, regardless of their political or sexual persuasion. 

 

So what really is the core issue?  Is it equal rights?  Is it social acceptance of homosexuality?  And what about the children?

 

Equal Rights

 

In the majority opinion written by Chief Justice Ronald George overturning the voter approved statute defining marriage as between a man and a woman, he stated that “California . . . in recent years has enacted comprehensive domestic partnership legislation under which a same-sex couple may enter into a legal relationship that affords the couple virtually all of the same substantive legal benefits and privileges, and imposes upon the couple virtually all of the same legal obligations and duties, that California law affords to and imposes upon a married couple.”

 

Furthermore, in that same opinion, he also wrote, "from the beginning of California statehood, the legal institution of civil marriage has been understood to refer to a relationship between a man and a woman . . . and the marriage statute adopted by the California Legislature during its first session clearly assumed that the marriage relationship necessarily involved persons of the opposite sex.”  Hmmmm . . .

 

The California Family Code, in Section 297.5, paragraphs a, b, and c (which are identical, except for the references in parentheses) clarifies the legal rights and responsibilities of registered domestic partners are entitled to in California.  “Registered (and former registered, and surviving registered) domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses (and former spouses, and a widow or widower).

 

California’s voter information guide contains arguments and rebuttals for both sides of the argument.  In the rebuttal to the argument in favor of Proposition 8, opponents wrote, “California statutes clearly identify nine real differences between marriage and domestic partnerships.”

 

What are these differences?  Be specific people, don’t just throw up a smoke screen, wave your arms, and cry foul.  If you want to solve the equal rights problem, say exactly what the specific needs are so that legislation can be passed that will provide the specific liberties being sought.  Equality California is a leading organization founded in 1998 to pursue equal rights for homosexual people in California.  The organization’s website states that, “In the past 10 years, Equality California has strategically moved California from a state with extremely limited legal protections for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) individuals to a state with some of the most comprehensive civil rights protections in the nation.  In the past decade, EQCA has successfully passed more than 45 pieces of civil rights legislation for the LGBT community – more than any other statewide LGBT organization in the nation.  Most sections of California law prohibit discrimination based on a long list of protected classes, including sexual orientation, gender and gender identity. LGBT Californians are protected from discrimination in securing employment and housing, accessing government services and participating in state-funded activities. LGBT people are also protected under the state’s hate crime law.” This organization, and many others like it, is not going to go away, so it is safe to assume that they will continue to pursue equal rights for LGBT individuals in California until true legal equality is achieved.  No problem.  It’s already in process. 

 

Social Acceptance of Homosexuality

 

Opponents of Proposition 8 claim that they are not looking for societal acceptance of homosexuality, they simply want homosexuals to be free to marry the person they love.  If true equality under law can be achieved for both traditional married couples and civil unions between same gender couples, and if there are only nine differences that remain to be legislated, then the discrimination argument can be resolved equitably in the near future.  Same gender couples can then truly receive all the benefits and responsibilities of traditionally married couples in every respect EXCEPT in name.  Will that be acceptable to the LGBT community?  If so, then let’s settle this mess and get on with other pressing business.  If not, then it reveals the lie about what is opponents of Proposition are really seeking - societal acceptance of homosexuality.  And on this subject, the people have every right to vote and determine what society should accept or not accept without being called a bigot or homophobe. 

 

Let the voice of the people decide!  But separate the two issues – equal rights and societal acceptance.  Opponents KNOW that if the issues were separate, they would FAIL.  Many people are just plain disgusted with and tired of hearing about gays and homosexuality.  They object to being told, “It’s going to happen now, whether you like it or not.”  Thus, opponents focus the spotlight on the “fairness” and “equality” arguments, and sweep the issue of societal acceptance under the carpet.  Yet the societal acceptance is insidious.  It has the real potential to create problems that are just beginning to be seen in places that have legalized same gender marriage. 

 

The Future

 

All over the Internet, you can read articles claiming that proponents of Proposition 8 are using scare tactics and outright lies about its implications on children to win its passage.  In researching this subject, I found that there have been many efforts over the years to pass California laws having to do with the promotion of homosexuality in our schools.  Some few have passed, but the majority failed.  I am surprised that few have publicly observed that the failure of most of these measures to pass was likely related to California’s recognition at the time that marriage was between a man and a woman.  In other words, that definition, which became California law when voters passed it overwhelmingly in 2000, was an important bulwark in the legal defense of striking down proposed legislation that would mandate same gender education of our young children.  That fence has been blown down now, as it were, by the May 2008 judicial fiat.  If Proposition 8 does not pass, will the proposals for new legislation mandating exposing our children to increased education about LGBT issues cease?  What does history already show?  Any rational adult will recognize that if anything, such efforts will ONLY INCREASE, and find greater likelihood of passage.  Scare tactics?  We are talking about the future of our children here. 

 

To those who say that children in schools will not be affected by the defeat of Proposition 8, I say, what makes you a prophet?  After the recent catastrophic global economic meltdown, former financial demigod Alan Greenspan has now admitted a fundamental error in his beliefs about the issue of deregulation in our banking and financial system that was a major factor in the economic collapse.  OOPS!  That mess has been totally devastating to millions of people, and will take years to clean up.  We are all affected, and will be for many years to come.  The multitudinous ramifications of legalized same gender marriage won’t be fully understood or visible for years, but by then it may be too late to prevent major problems that can affect everyone in California.  To even think otherwise is to be blind to real life.  Take a look at what is already happening where same sex marriage was legalized years ago, and you can see some of the harbingers. 

 

Discrimination, which is often used to mean unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice, is wrong. But the word discrimination also means to discern qualities and recognize the differences between things.  By this definition, we all discriminate every day as a necessary part of making decisions.  And recognizing the qualities and differences between traditional and same gender marriage should not mean that we are all forced to equalize them.  Some allowances should be made for the differences.  In this regard, California already has the most tolerant and non-discriminatory laws regarding same gender couples that can be found anywhere in the U.S.  Proposition 8 will not change this.  If there are more laws that need to be passed to provide true equality, then let’s get them out in the open, deal with them, and stop the arm waving and name calling.  California has already proven that it is willing to provide equal rights. We can maintain this tradition without redefining marriage for everyone just because a tiny fraction of the population really, really wants to. 

 

I believe we need to be tolerant, respectful, non-discriminatory, sensitive, and loving towards those of same gender persuasion (see, no name calling or rage), but without accepting same sex unions as being socially equal to the institution of traditional male-female marriage.  That’s why I will vote Yes on Proposition 8.

 

One wonders if this is part of the organized movement

Protein Wisdom published a story that originated in the New York times on August 8, 2008 called "Group Plans Campaign Against G.O.P. Donors" as follows:

Nearly 10,000 of the biggest donors to Republican candidates and causes across the country will probably receive a foreboding “warning” letter in the mail next week.

The letter is an opening shot across the bow from an unusual new outside political group on the left that is poised to engage in hardball tactics to prevent similar groups on the right from getting off the ground this fall.

Led by Tom Matzzie, a liberal political operative who has been involved with some prominent left-wing efforts in recent years, the newly formed nonprofit group, Accountable America, is planning to confront donors to conservative groups, hoping to create a chilling effect that will dry up contributions.

“We want to stop the Swift Boating before it gets off the ground,” said Mr. Matzzie, who described his effort as “going for the jugular.”

The warning letter is intended as a first step, alerting donors who might be considering giving to right-wing groups to a variety of potential dangers, including legal trouble, public exposure and watchdog groups digging through their lives.

The group is also hoping to be able to respond if an outside conservative group broadcasts a television advertisement attacking Senator Barack Obama, or another Democratic candidate, by running commercials exposing the donors behind the advertisements.

Judd Legum, who was the research director for Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s presidential campaign, has signed on to play the same role for Accountable America.

The group has raised only $200,000, but Mr. Matzzie said he expected to collect more than $500,000 by next week, with an ultimate goal of $2 million.

Mr. Matzzie said he had decided to focus exclusively on conservative donors because such an effort could be done cheaply.

“It’s targeted,” Mr. Matzzie said. “We don’t need $25 million.”

Mr. Matzzie recently served as one of the leaders of Progressive Media U.S.A., a group that was intended to lead a left-wing media effort in the presidential election, but the group folded several months ago after it failed to raise enough money, partly because of signals from the Obama campaign that donors should not give to outside groups.

Mr. Obama and other Democratic officials have issued warnings about possible activities by outside groups like the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which helped sink Senator John Kerry’s presidential bid in 2004. But activity among outside conservative groups has been decidedly low-level.

Still, Accountable America has singled out some major Republican donors, including Sheldon Adelson, a billionaire casino mogul, and Mel Sembler, a former ambassador and real estate magnate, both major donors to Freedom’s Watch, a conservative group.

Calls to Mr. Sembler and Mr. Adelson were not returned, but Ed Patru, a spokesman for Freedom’s Watch, scoffed at Mr. Matzzie’s plan.

“This idea sounds even more sloppily thought out than his last venture, which, of course, went belly-up for lack of financial support,” Mr. Patru said.

“I doubt anyone will be intimidated by him,” he said, “but if it gives anyone pause, they are always welcome to give to Freedom’s Watch — all of our donors are entitled to complete anonymity by law.”

Indeed, anonymity is a potential obstacle to the group’s efforts. Outside political groups organized as 501(c)4 entities, including Accountable America, do not have to disclose the names of their donors.

Chris LaCivita, a Republican strategist who helped organize the Swift Boat effort, said Mr. Matzzie’s group was likely to have the opposite effect on potential donors, firing them up instead of discouraging them.

“They’re not going to be intimidated by some pipsqueak on the kooky left,” Mr. LaCivita said.

Protein Wisdom adds:

It’s getting rough in California, where anti-Prop 8 (Limit Marriage initiative) groups are targeting donors. Unconfirmed claims from the proponents of Prop 8 is that these “targeting” efforts include not just “large” donors, but — using the Los Angeles Times database — anyone that has donated over $100 in support of Prop 8 has to declare their employer and employers are getting calls along the lines of “Why do you employ a hater? Do you think it’s good for your business to have a hater there?”

 

Persecution

 

In all honesty, I must admit that I feel persecution is not new to either side of the coin for those involved in the battle over Prop 8.  Both those of the faith based community and the homosexual community have probably felt some of the effects of intolerance from others simply because of their beliefs.  Even though Prop 8 has seemed to cause a division in these two communities, I believe there are definite similarities in the area of persecution that they both share. 

 

That said, persecution and violence in any form is simply not something that should be tolerated.  These acts of aggression are not acceptable and should be viewed by both communities as sickening and perverse.  Quite possibly, IMHO this should act as a uniting issue, where both communities should take a stand and rebuke those who would presume to use these intolerable tactics. 

 

A long hard look must be taken on what is happening in a “civilized” world, where the expression of one’s views would elicit violence and death threats.  This is the gravest form of intolerance that can be imagined.  This is an issue we all must unit against and speak out about no matter which side of the fence you sit on regarding Prop 8.

 

As a faith based individual I have decidedly taken a stand to vote Yes on Prop 8.  I feel no hatred or repulsion for my friends in the homosexual community.  Traditional marriage is an issue I feel I must speak about, teaching correct principles as I understand them, and defending the definition as it applies to my faith based teachings.  This is my right as a US citizen and should be honored by all who expect the same courtesy.  This to me is true tolerance, a position that can be discussed rationally and in some cases simply agree to disagree. 

 

Violence and persecution in any form must be rooted out and we must put an end to it!  United in this issue, we can overcome. 

Honorable tolerant stand to protect marriage

 

As a faith based individual I have decidedly taken a stand to vote Yes on Prop 8.  I feel no hatred or repulsion for my friends in the homosexual community.  Traditional marriage is an issue I feel I must speak about, teaching correct principles as I understand them, and defending the definition as it applies to my faith based teachings.  This is my right as a US citizen and should be honored by all who expect the same courtesy.  This to me is true tolerance, a position that can be discussed rationally and in some cases simply agree to disagree. 

Well said!

BTW, a poll shows Prop 8 ahead 52% to 43%. The more people are informed, the more they support the Cali proposition to save traditional marriage.

 

 

Re: Honorable tolerant stand to protect marriage

Great news to hear! Let us hope the poll numbers improve even more.  The opposition doesn't realize that this works against them in public opinion.

Hate on 8 - Mormon Death Threats

It is a frightening thought, to think that this could possibly be some kind of organized hate campaign against Mormons.  But, the more I am learning about those who want to expose anything "bad" about any Mormon - it causes one to truly wonder?

I agree with you, that this type of publicity for the No on 8 campaign, will only work against them.  In talking with members of the LDS Church, they are feeling even more unified, and ready to stand even taller.

I love the Mormon people.  They easily forgive, and go forward without fear.  As I have personally blogged about the Mormon Death Threats, I have come to respect these members even more.

tDMg

Free speech, but my way

Am sorry to hear about this happening.  It seems all to typical in many portions of the country.  Unfortunately we have entered an era when the ends justify the means for some people. 

Must be the golden rule has changed.  Used to be "Do to others as you would have them do to you".   Now it seems the rule reads: "Do to others whatever you think is right and then attack with epithets when you are called for it". 

This makes me very sad.  It speaks to the consequences of the parenting skills of my generation and the generation of parents coming out of WWII.  As one of the protesters during the late 60s I had hoped to make a better world by replacing the bigotry of the prior generations with a sense of concern for all humans.  When "those" people got old and moved on, we were supposed to create a better world.  Unfortunately all we did was replace one type of limited thinking for another.  We are no longer a generation or country of peace and compassion.  We have become a nation of freedom, as long as it meets the criterion of any particularly biased group. 

In this regard death threats centered around issues does not surprise me.  When organizations knowingly register voters who are not eligible to vote, or even make up names of people and register them, then the most important part of our rights have descended to the abyss of personal justification and "righteous betrayal".   How is the behavior described in this article any different than beating people who voice opposition to the cause I support?  

 We are not living in some third world country ruled by dictators, are we?  Yet we have a secret police every bit as effective as the secret police of those police state because it is our neighbors who are threatening us and attempting to enforce a particular viewpoint.   Unfortunately, this is the western version of a police state where neighbor betrays neighbor based on saving society.   In a police state the ends do justify the means. 

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. must be writhing in agony to see that the terroristic tactics of the bigots he fought have become the tactics of those claiming to support equal rights.

Everyone should be Equal

 

This is quite sad. I can’t believe that people in this day and age are still practicing discrimination. Gays and lesbians pay taxes like everyone else, but still don’t have the same rights and privileges that non-gay citizens do. What happened to separation of church and state? I don’t see anyone here practicing that. It’s quite amazing that the mere people that are casting judgments towards taking away Gay and Lesbian rights are the ones that are the biggest sinners and feel the need to go to church in hope for god to clear them of their sins.
 
Before you think about taking away some ones right, start thinking about the freedoms that you have, the freedoms that your child will have in the future. Many adults have little ones that will grow to be adult Gay and Lesbians so think twice about what rights you will be taking away cause it might just be your child’s and they will be the ones to suffer. Everyone deservers to be treated equally and this is merely what this proposition is.
 
This is a civil rights movement, no different than what black people and women went through many years ago. Everyone should be treated equally and discrimination should be something that our children should not see from parents today. In order for us to grow as a race, we must evolve and not be scared of change. This forum is so full of fear and maybe, just maybe we could start seeing humanity with love just like the bible preaches. We must love our neighbor and give everyone the right to the same rights that non-gay people have.