An Intellectual Bailout

In 2003, Megan McArdle coined Jane's Law: "The devotees of the party in power are smug and arrogant. The devotees of the party out of power are insane."  Some friends on the Left appear to be exploring both.

Speculating on the Right's distaste for the various fiscal stimulus proposals and bailout billions, Steve Benen, Ed Kilgore, Josh Marshall, and Matt Yglesias all argue that the only explanations for involve the Right being stupid or evil.  Yglesias summarized...

    • The Moral Explanation: Ed Kilgore explains that some on the right thing America is too fate and happy. This is a bit like David Frum’s nineties vintage Donner Party conservatism.

    • The Benefactor Explanation: Matt Stoller says the right is more interested in entrenching inequality than worrying about the economy.

    • The Illiterate Explanation: Maybe they’re just dumb.

    • The Strategic Explanation: TPM Reader JF observes that a long depression serves the GOP’s political interests.

Washington Monthly's Benen also speculates on a Machurian Explanation, which assumes "it's possible that GOP officials secretly hate the United States and are actively trying to destroy us from within. That last one seems unlikely, but I'm just presenting the possibilities."   Classy.  Let's try not to think about how outraged the Left has been for the last 7 years over Andrew Sullivan suggesting that some people could "mount what amounts to a fifth column.

Inexplicably, none of them appear to even consider the arguments that skeptics actually make: that (a) fiscal stimulus is a poor tool for addressing recessions, (b) fiscal stimulus and bailouts are distortionary, and (c) we can't keep doubling down every time the previous policy bets go bad.

The case against massive government intervention isn't tough.  The Left should be particularly aware of that after having spent the past few years attacking Republicans for doubling down on various well-intentioned but unhelpful interventions.  And the case against fiscal stimulus isn't exactly unknown...

  • "Can we pump up the economy with additional tax cuts or temporary public spending? Not safely..."
  • "What about fiscal policy? Some liberals have recently [argued] that the economic slump is a reason to put aside promises to protect the Social Security surplus. But those liberals are making a big mistake."
  • "[A]lmost all economists now agree with [Milton Friedman's] position that monetary policy, not fiscal policy, is the tool of choice for fighting recessions."

In fact, the case against fiscal stimulus shouldn't be unfamilar to the Left, either.  Each of those quotes is from liberal economist Paul Krugman.  In fairness, there are also good economic arguments for fiscal stimulus - even massive fiscal stimulus - as "in the face of deep and persistent slumps" and when "the economy is near a liquidity trap" (both of which are possible).   Like an alcoholic taking another drink to ease the pain, though, those arguments amount to doubling down to get relief from the symptoms.

And then you have positively weird comments, like this from Matt Stoller...

Deflation transfers wealth from debtors to creditors, which is another way of saying from people who are cash poor (the poor, the middle class, entrepreneurs, risk-takers) to people who have cash (the risk-averse rich).  Unfortunately, the risk-averse rich don't spend very much of their wealth relative to everyone else, which is why they are risk-averse. ... And here you see the political problem; people that have money would prefer that they remain on top, and will oppose attempts to restart spending from a broad base.  These people are known as 'conservatives', and they have their Beltway facing servants writing screeds about how the New Deal failed in the 1930s.  Economics is very dry and technical, but it is inherently political.  

Stoller seems to confuse wealthy people with people who keep their money in a coffee can.  In the real world, wealthy people keep their wealth in investments....and lose massive amounts of it when the economy tanks.  And while deflation might make any given dollar more valuable, that's not at all the same thing as making wealthy people wealthier.  Anyway, the implication of all this is that massive inflation is an important progressive policy.  Think of all the wealth you could transfer to the poorViva la 70's!  I encourage the Left to start making this argument.

Which brings us back to this: the Left has always some very conspiratorial, paranoid notions about the Right (and the same can be said of the Right about the Left, of course).  But they will have fewer and fewer tangible Republican policies to oppose as they consolidate control of government, so expect this to grow worse.  They're going to have to continually work harder to justify vilifying their opponents. 

Ultimately, this dynamic will not be healthy for the Left.   Tylen Cowen is right...

It will be interesting to see if the Keynesian multiplier becomes the Democratic Party economist equivalent of the Laffer Curve, namely a "free lunch" claim used to justify many kinds of preferred policies.  Have I mentioned that having their party in power was very bad for Republican economists too

Being out of power helps to sharpen a movement and party; getting back into power dumbs them right back down.

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I like the Cowen quote

The guy whose bet gets tested in realities casino is much more likely to look a fool than the guy who can talk all day long about what a smart bet he wants to make but never has to run it.

It will be interesting to see if the Keynesian multiplier becomes the Democratic Party economist equivalent of the Laffer Curve, namely a "free lunch" claim used to justify many kinds of preferred policies.  Have I mentioned that having their party in power was very bad for Republican economists too

Any speculator will take a 3 to 1 shot with a 4 to 1 payoff. The problem for economists and politicians is how to deal with the fact your still going to lose 3 out of 4 times.

easy. make more bets.

800% profits in the past year. But make one bad bet, and you can lose it all. Why do you think more than 90% of hedge funds are out of business??

the retro keynes thing is new

All the qando Krugman quotes are from 2003 or before -- it seems like current events are playing a pretty strong role in shaping his views re: keynes vs. the monetarists.  You can see it here.  

For my part, I don't see how you can rate-cut your way out of this thing.  I've only been following the markets for ten years, but this is the first time I've ever seen the market just shrug at rate cuts as if they didn't matter.  Welcome to the liquidity trap, I guess. 

At least the low rate on treasuries will make it cheap to finance bailouts and stimulus. 

in 2003 we had fake growth.

that greenspan was engineering. thanks for pointing out how much of a weasel I'm reading.

Friedman's ideas have been tried. They FAILED. OP's ideas are to stockpile cigarettes and ammunition, apparently. Which makes him more optimistic than the rest of his ilk.

It's not a liquidity trap. We've already set the interest rate at less than 1% (fed sets TARGET rate. market sets REAL rate).  Quite Simply: "you can't pull on a string"

The low rate on treasuries doesn't matter when China wants to foreclose on our ass.

For what it's worth...

Note that I linked Krugman when saying there were also good arguments for fiscal stimulus.  The arguments he was making then are consistent with what he's writing now.  In normal circumstances, fiscal stimulus is a very bad idea (though politicians always ignore that, and pundits always find reasons to rationalize why it's not such a bad idea).  However, this falls much closer to the liquidity trap problem that Krugman specified as an exception in his pre-'03 columns.  In that regard, there is at least an argument for fiscal stimulus.

That argument completely ignores the problems of speed, distortion and long-term strategy, but it's at least an argument.

okay

Ah, I didn't click those and didn't realize they were actually more Krugman links rather than somebody else.  

I imagine that our disagreements are somewhere in the tremendous question of how good markets and the government are at allocating capital in a socially optimal way. 

Recognize monetary stimulus has been in overdrive for 11 months

And it has yet to produce the desired results. Last week the fed began printing money in earnest. Bernanke continues to strike quickly. Results will have to wait.

a medical analogy applies here

Adding another trillion or so dolalrs to the fiscal deficit is like having to use Vancomycin on a patient who has been given penicillin for the sniffles for years.......weren't the huge deficits of the Bush era stimulating enough?

It's like the Fannie Mae approach to unaffordable housing---give out exotic interest only no money down mortgages to make the housing appear to be affordable

or FIRE ALL YOUR RISK OFFICERS!!!

oh, wait, that wasn't fanny mae. See Mortgage Dynamics.

 

Fewer and Fewer tangible republican policies

but still enough blowhards in congress.

"veterans benefits are the new welfare" should sound familiar. and it plays well, because it's both true and really fucking stupid.

Print money, not tax, not borrow

Obama is certainly going to do stuff, and whatever he does will have good points and bad points.

Are we in a financial crisis?  Yes.  The recession started last year, end of 2007 (NBER, now official) (like Mike Huckabee was talking...).

Voters will vote for a gov't solution.  Even if 'doing nothing' is optimal in some social sense, when there is this much pain the liquidating of all mis-allocated labor is going to be so painful that voters will vote for snake oil in preference.

Reps need to have an activist policy, to argue for INSTEAD of whatever Obama does.

Time to thro the elite rich 'pro-free market talkers in good times only'  rich to the mercies of pre-packaged Chapter 11 bankruptcy court.  They invested in banks that cannot fulfil their contracts?  They violated their written obligations?  They're gone.  There's too many bankers anyway, just like the too many homebuilders when there are 4 mil. unsold homes, instead of the more usual 2 mil or less.  If 500 000 construction workers needing work isn't a crisis, why should 500 000 bankers getting sacked be much worse?

While letting bad banks go under, Bernake should crank up the helicopter to give out $5 000 to every taxpayer, or a refund of 100% of what they paid last year.  Let the taxpayer voters decide, in their purchases, what to support of the future economy.

If this idea is too extreme, Reps need a place to discuss other ideas that are active but minimize the long term negative effects.

 

yes, let's just give china more money!

that'll solve american problems!

(in all seriousness, I think China has been the primary influence behind the stimulus packages, as they get most of the money and own most of our debt).

The "Privatize the Profits and Socialize the Risk" Rich need to go. And Now. Republicans will do themselves a world of a favor by coming down pro-regulation. AND NOT blaming the Democrats. Be evenhanded for once. Bush did some really fucking stupid shit. Clinton opened the gate so that they coiuld steal all this shit (but he still had good people guarding the gate).

Voters will vote for solutions. They don't necessarily need to be government solutions -- but you do have to have some idea as to how to get out of this mess.

The problem?

Nobody knows how to get out of this mess. Not Geither, not Volkher, not anybody. Hope they throw shit on the walls real quick, and I hope some of it sticks.

Rising Tide, you are a moron

I could spend all my time refuting your ignorant bullshit, but It isn't worth it.  YOU are not worth it.  I might feel different if you ever had a single constructive thing to say or idea to present.  Are you an Obama or Democrat party hack?  Is this your full time job?  Do you have a life? 

It seems that you spend your entire day between here and the DailyKOS.  I work all day and do most of my blogging in the evening.  Occassionally I will stop by thenextright.com mid-morning or at lunch to see whats happening.  It seems no matter what time of day, you are always here!  I think what you need a solid dose of real life. Go out and try it and then you may actually have something constructive to say.

 

Getting frustrated could not

Getting frustrated could not be your choice but its not the solution. That's what my situation was when I had attempted 650-175 after passing the initial 70-238 exam with good marks. But the earlier turned out to be a disaster and ruined my plans of moving forward with XK0-002 and that was not it. What I learned though was that you got to keep working, that's what I did and was eventually successful. So we should just stay optimist.