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The Right's Successful Vision for Education Reform

Submitted by Dan Lips on Thu, 01/08/2009 - 10:26
in

If we're going to successfully renew popular support for conservative ideas, the right must capitalize on opportunities to demonstrate how we offer a better vision for America than the left. Florida's success story with education reform is a good example.

Since the 1960s, liberals have backed a failed strategy for improving education -- increasing government spending, growing the federal bureaucracy, and largely resisting serious reform efforts at the state and local level.  Over time, per-pupil spending has doubled and the Washington bureaucracy has ballooned.  But we’ve seen little improvement in student learning.  Millions of kids continue to pass through the nation’s public schools without receiving a quality education.  

Unfortunately, we should expect more of the same from the new administration and congressional majority.  But this will give conservatives a real opportunity to offer parents and taxpayers a more compelling vision for improving education.  A vision based on conservative principles -- limiting Washington’s ineffective role and offering a broad reform agenda at the state and local level.  Growing evidence shows that unlike federal intervention, aggressive-state level reform can deliver real progress.

Thanks to the leadership of former Gov. Jeb Bush, Florida is proving that conservative education reforms work. Over the past decade, the Sunshine State has enacted sweeping reforms, including quality testing and transparency reporting, ending social promotion, improving classroom instruction, and strengthening teaching by offering performance pay incentives. Florida also leads the nation in offering parents the power to choose the best school for their children.  

These reforms have led to dramatic improvement. Since 1998, Florida students have made impressive gains on the National Assessment of Educational Progress, far outpacing the national average. Importantly, the biggest strides have been made by Hispanic and African-American children. In fact, Florida’s Hispanic students now have higher NAEP reading scores than the statewide average of all students in 15 states (see map below).

Florida Education Gains for Hispanics

 

It’s time we compare these successful results with the failures of years of federal policy.  That includes No Child Left Behind -- the most recent, failed federal intervention. NCLB has once again shown the limits (and potential dangers) of increased federal power. Despite funding increases of nearly 50%, NCLB has done little to help children attend better schools or deliver meaningful improvement in student learning.  Ironically, increased federal power has actually created a perverse incentive for states to lower standards -- potentially undermining the accountability reforms that are working in places like Florida.

It’s unlikely that liberals will appreciate these lessons. And as they continue to pursue their failed strategy of expanding federal power, conservatives have an opportunity to point to successes like Florida and offer a compelling vision for a better future for American families.

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Comments

At the state level is the way to go.

Submitted by Hythloday on Thu, 01/08/2009 - 13:31.

I agree that we need to present superior alternatives to new liberal ideas or status quo policy if we are to get any traction during this Congress, the mid-terms or 2012.   NCLB was a failure in large measure because it was a poorly managed federal program that imposed one set of rules and standards from on high.  The same needs to be done for health care reform, though I am not sure where to point to a success.  The only downside I see to performance pay incentives is what teachers may do to reach an incentive at the cost of educating a student.  Put another way, this is why we can't pay teachers $200K per year.  People will take the job for the money but who do not have the enthusiasm to teach.   

Florida

Submitted by Jim Dandy to th... on Thu, 01/08/2009 - 14:07.

Doesn't "Florida's Hispanic Students Outperform 15 Statewide Averages"

mean that, despite Jeb Bush and the Heritage Foundation's kindly massage of statistics, they still UNDER-perform compared to 34 other states?  Better rethink this plan of attack.

I, too, was flumoxed by that chart

Submitted by NextRightNando on Thu, 01/08/2009 - 14:10.

Whatever the point is it is trying to make is beyond me.

If I understand it correctly

Submitted by TheWaterman on Thu, 01/08/2009 - 15:11.

It's significant because the Hispanics in Florida - who usually significantly underperform educationally - are outperforming the total averages of other states. So if the total averages for Florida were compared they would be higher still than many other states not listed.

demographic sophistry

Submitted by RisingTide on Thu, 01/08/2009 - 15:17.

everyone knows that there's a reason that cubans are more well off than other hispanics. also, economic wellbeing --specifically homeownership, correlates very well with school performance.

Bad Logic on Comment

Submitted by akman on Thu, 01/08/2009 - 15:15.

The point is that they were previously underperforming other groups, now they are improving and doing better.  "Previously" is the key word, it means that the reform brought about scholastic improvement.

Before I could accept that conclusion

Submitted by NextRightNando on Thu, 01/08/2009 - 15:29.

I would need to see the "before" data. Maybe Florida's Hispanic schooldchildren have always scored higher than a selection of cherry-picked states?

Florida Hispanics

Submitted by Ladner665 on Thu, 01/08/2009 - 16:48.

Only about half of Florida's Hispanics are Cubans, and contrary to stereotypes, most Cubans are not wealthy. In fact, in 1998 (the year before the reforms) Florida's Hispanics performed relatively poorly. Since then, however, they have made enough progress to outscore 15 statewide averages on a test of reading which is only given in English.

The same trend can be seen for Florida's African Americans, who outscored two statewide averages in 2007 after a decade of strong progress. Check out the charts in the study:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Education/bg2226.cfm

Education

Submitted by BulldogsRule on Thu, 01/08/2009 - 17:27.

 While it is true that the cost per student has balooned over the years we need to be honest in why that has occured. We cannot attempt to lay it all at the feet of Democratic policies. It is time to take responsibility for our own actions. No child left behind has added billions to our deficit....and that's only one of the issues we must take into account if we are to change the way this party continues into the future.

Cost of living is another reason why prices for everything associated with teaching has risen. Much in part to deregulation, money being abundant.  You cannot simply say that per child has balooned without being honest in why. If we do? This party is doomed and I fear for 2010 and 2012. Sarah Palin is not the direction we need to take this party, she of the "My problems are everyone's else's fault" retoric.

Chip (Dip) Saltsman is just another example of not dealing with reality. Blacks, Mexicans and Latinos are here to stay and they are reproducing at a rate of 2 to 1 in regards to whites. They are becoming a voting majority and if we continue to hide our heads in the sand where their votes are concerned? Good By Republicans.

A puzzling contradiction

Submitted by undoctored on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 11:50.

 In a discussion about education policies and the GOP, I think it is important to call attention to an interesting paradox.   During the presidential campaign, Republicans tried to depict Obama as "elitist' by calling attention to the fact that he attended a private school as a child and benefited from an ivy-league education. Who were these strategists targeting with such an anti-intellectual message? The low-information voters of Appalachia  and the South? Creationists who believe the earth is 5,000 years old? Voters who oppose sex education and contraception for teenagers? One must acknowledge that these groups are much more likely to vote for Republicans than Democrats.  One is led to the inevitable conclusion (please correct me if I'm wrong) that the uneducated and uninformed vote normally goes to the GOP. 

And then there's the Palin phenomenon.  In 2008 the GOP chose to run an obviously unqualified person as VP, someone who attended five colleges before obtaining her degree, who is painfully inarticulate, has virtually no foreign experience, who tried to ban books at the library in her little town, who couldn't name one Supreme Court decision or any newspapers that she read, who believes in witchcraft and Creationism.  Where is the respect for education in all of that?   

high school drop outs are very loyal Democrats

Submitted by superdestroyer on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 13:22.

Uneducated people are loayl to the Democrats because uneducated people like government handouts.  Blacks are the most likely to want creationism taught, to not read newspapers, to not travel abroad, and to believe in witchcraft.  Yet, they are very loyal Democrats.

 

You stay classy....

Submitted by Cahnman on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 14:28.

n/t

In Tulsa Oklahoma the NCLB

Submitted by BulldogsRule on Thu, 01/08/2009 - 17:30.

In Tulsa Oklahoma the NCLB act has done nothing other than give the teachers more busy work and regulations to be met. That takes time away from the students. If this is the best we can do? We are in trouble. As for setting up health care like we have this program? Not happening.

Abandon NCLB and Pursue Federalist Approaches to Education

Submitted by chemjeff on Thu, 01/08/2009 - 19:18.

I confess, to me NCLB seemed like a good idea at the time.  If the Republicans aren't going to be successful in eliminating the Department of Education, my first choice, then at least Republicans can tame the Dept. of Ed to serve conservative ideals about teacher and school accountability.  Well guess what, guess we should have sticked to Plan A.  Instead of outright advocating for the elimination of the Dept. of Ed, which will only be demagogued by Democrats as us "harming the children", let's work on state-level initiatives to get both student and teacher performance up.  It will mean going toe to toe with state teachers' unions and it will be a tough battle but I think in the end parents will come to understand that it's more important to support kids and their education than to support outrageous demands of teachers' unions.

Conservatives and Education

Submitted by Jim Dandy to th... on Thu, 01/08/2009 - 21:20.

"Reform agenda" ??

 

Hasn't the Conservative plan and platform been out there for years?

1.  To dismantle the Federal Department of Education

2.  To take away all public funding for Education at all levels

3.  To turn the Education of America's children over to the private sector.

4.  To promote Education vouchers and support Charter schools, especially in urban areas?

Ken Mehlman really thought this would be the foundation of the GOP's pitch to Blacks and Minorities.  And I believe Michael Steele has spoken broadly about these principles as well.

NCLB was a thinly-disguised attempt to get these things done.  Under NCLB's ridiculous criteria for funding EVERY PUBLIC SCHOOL IN THE COUNTRY would be classified thhis year as non-performing to Federal standards, and therefore a candidate for the denial of direct Federal funding and the implementation of a Federal voucher program to parents of children in non-performing schools.

It just never was fully implemented the way it was designed.

Parents of school-age children in every district in the country know NCLB for what it is:  A Conservative-designed time bomb whose fuse was pulled.

Congratulations

Submitted by chemjeff on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 01:51.

Congratulations, you have completely bought into the Democrat spin.  NCLB was NEVER about "taking away all public funding for Education at all levels".  I guess you really do believe those fundraising letters you receive from the DNC.  NCLB was about attempting to tame the Department of Education to serve a conservative philosophy of accountability.  It didn't work.  Gingrich tried to eliminate the Department of Education in 1995.  It didn't work.  I'd really like to know what you think the Department of Education should do and how it should fit into a conservative paradigm because I"m dying to know.  And you'd better not quote Howard Dean or any of his fundraising letters.

NCLB

Submitted by Jim Dandy to th... on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 10:14.

"...NCLB was about attempting to tame the Department of Education to serve a conservative philosophy of accountability.."

 

Under NCLB, three things were supposed to happen: 

1. There would be a nationwide "accountability" program established that would test, test, test to measure and track progress or failure in every school

2.  There would be nationwide "standards" established for teachers and schools

3.  These metrics would be submitted for evaluation by the DoE, federal funds adjusted based on compliance, and then parents of non-performing schools would be offered "alternatives".

 

The time bomb:

1.  Set funding levels to make sure public schools and districts never reach the "standards".

2.  Set "standards" so that schools are forced to include scores from low-English immigrants and special-Ed populations as part of their metrics (since only public shools, especially union-run urban public shools, are mandated to serve these populations).

3.  Begin to pull Federal Funds from Public Education as school after school has to submit metrics below Federal Standards

4.  Turn these Federal Funds over to Corporate Charter schools run by outfits like Princeton Review, Kaplan, Sylvan Learning, and others with a voucher system.  Collect campaign contributions to the GOP from the private sector, give out plums to "Pioneers" and GOP stalwarts, collect votes from happy urban parents, rinse, repeat.

 

NCLB has very little to do with Accountability or Education:  It has a lot to do with politics, with dismantling Public Education, with breaking the back of solidly Democratic Teachers' Unions, and with combatting the "Liberal Bias" in Education that wakes Conservatives up at night and makes them change the sheets after their cold sweats. 

What do I think the Department of Education should do?  They should turn American Public Education into the finest in the world.  Period. 

How?  They should take a look at the most succesful public school systems in the world, copy them, fit them to America, and improve them so we become the best.

It's an archaic, self-defeating travesty that the greatest country in the world leaves the education of its young people, its greatest, most important resource, its future, in the hands of local politicians, hacks and cynical partisan ignoramuses like Gingrich.

public schools

Submitted by chemjeff on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 11:06.

Well look.  You have clearly drunk the Kool-Aid that Republicans have devious intent to destroy public education. Your paranoid ramblings are just plain silly.  You honestly think NCLB was part of some perfidious strategy to undermine public education?  Here is the real problem.  Liberals complain that there isn't enough NCLB funding.  But NCLB was never supposed to take over funding entirely for the schools.  It was always supposed to be a partnership between the Dept. of Ed and the various states and school districts.  So NCLB was supposed to provide only part of the money, with the rest coming from the schools.  So these complaints from liberals are disingenuous.

But about the broader problem, I can tell you honestly that the complaints I hear most frequently from my Republican colleagues about public education are:

- teachers waste too much time on multicultural nonsense and self-esteem-building pop psychology rather than focusing on a solid education.

- teachers' ideological agendas leak into the classroom more frequently than they should, and, surprise surprise, those agendas always lean to the left.

- teachers are more-or-less immune to regular standards of basic competence, via protection provided by unions and the tenure system, so bad teachers get recycled rather than fired.

- there is simply too much bureaucratic nonsense at public schools, with administrators letting rules get in the way of common sense.

But the only ones I have ever met who think public education should be "dismantled" are doctrinaire libertarians, and they obviously do not constitute the majority of the Republican Party.  (However, if you believe the propaganda from the teachers' unions, voting for Republicans is an endorsement of firebombing public schools.)

You want nationalized schools then?  Leaving aside the pesky problem that the Constitution doesn't really permit the federal government to take over all the schools, what you would do is completely centralize power to a hitherto unknown degree.  What do you think will happen with the nationalized schools when the next "cynical partisan ignoramus" takes office?  He will then be able to wreck all the schools, not just the ones in his area.  Or did you think that liberals should always be in charge?

Leaving aside..

Submitted by Jim Dandy to th... on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 11:56.

Let's leave for now your "typical Republican complaints", which are based more on anecdotes, partisan ideology, and emotion rather than facts or reason, but let's DO talk about "nationalizing" the schools.

The Constitution does not speak explicitly about schools at all.  It speaks of "promoting the General Welfare" and "securing the blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity", which are excellent arguments in favor of an explicit duty of our Government to educate our posterity.

You can also make a pretty valid argument in favor of a national school system as a necessary instrument in the proper observance of the 14th Amendment, which guarantees all Americans that no state shall deny to any person within its jurisdiction equal protection under its laws. 

If there is a discrepancy in the treatment of its citizens such as that which currently exists between a state like, say, Vermont, and a state like Mississippi as measured by all current Educational metrics, is that not a violation of the rights of the citizens of the state of Mississippi to equal protection from cruel ignorance?

And if we're talking anecdotally, as you seem to eenjoy doing, I have had plenty of conversations with Republican and Conservative Home Schoolers who believe the only proper thing to do at this point would be to bulldoze every school in this Nation and start over.

What do I think would happen to our Public School System if its nationalized and the next "cynical partisan ignoramus" takes office"? 

Hmm.. maybe we could borrow from the Framers, and institute a system of checks and balances?  Shouldn't be THAT hard to do, to design an Education system impervious to politics, should it?  How do other countries do it?  Why do other countries beat the pants off us in Engineering and Medical grads, math scores, literacy rates, and progress levels?  Don't they have "cynical partisan ignoramuses", too?

 

As to which part of my discussion of NCLB amounts to "Liberal kool-aid", let's just heed the words of one of the original framers of NCLB, GW Bush, in his address today to Educators, Parents, and Students at the Kearny School in Philadelphia:

 

"...By the way, school choice was only open to rich people up until No Child Left Behind. It's hard for a lot of parents to be able to afford to go to any other kind of school but their neighborhood school. Now, under this system, if your public school is failing, you'll have the option of transferring to another public school or charter school. And it's -- I view that as liberation. I view that as empowerment."

 

Kinda like he "liberated 50 million people" and "empowered" Iraq and Afghanistan, right?

 

Other Countries

Submitted by Cahnman on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 12:03.

Jim Dandy to the Rescue wrote:

Why do other countries beat the pants off us in Engineering and Medical grads, math scores, literacy rates, and progress levels? 

Maybe because they're teachers aren't unionized.

And yes, George W. Bush most certainly liberated and empowered 50 million people.

 

public school kool-aid

Submitted by chemjeff on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 12:27.

Okay, I know you're lying when you claim your conservative home schooling friends want to "bulldoze every school in the nation and start over".  That is just ridiculous.  But your rant does sound like the tons of snobbery I hear from my liberal colleagues whenever the subject of home schooling comes up - you know, those Bible-thumping ignorant cave dwellers who can't stand their children being exposed to the outside world for fear that they learn God didn't really create dinosaurs.  Did Jon Stewart do a segment recently on those inbred redneck homeschoolers?

Shouldn't be THAT hard to do, to design an Education system impervious to politics, should it?

Umm, yes, it is quite hard to do, it is impossible.  Anything run by the government is subject to politics, because guess who runs the government?  That's right - politicians!

It sounds like what you want is some fairy tale land in which politicians hand over gobs of tax money to technocrats, who then administer a gold-plated education system that is equivalently awesome everywhere.  Well guess what:

1. The public will demand some level of accountability from their tax money.  Often this accountability will come in forms that displease the technocrats.  Guess who will win in this dispute.

2. Who picks the technocrats?

3. Politicians have a strong incentive to manipulate the education system if they think it will favor their re-election chances.  So guess what, it will end up politicized anyway.

4. Why do you think the same system that works in Vermont will work in Mississippi?

5. And by the way, the teachers' unions are some of the most fearsome political beasts this country has ever known.  Even if you had a completely rational and apolitical school system, if it disagrees with the unions' ideological agenda they will oppose it.  So be sure to reserve some of your ire for them as well.

Your constitutional argument only makes sense if you believe there is a constitutional right to a public education, which there isn't.

And yes, George Bush did liberate and empower 50 million Iraqis and Afghans, much to the dismay of the Democrats.  You just keep proving over and over that you are not only drinking the Kool-Aid, you're drowning in it.

I live in Mississippi...

Submitted by LnGrrrR on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 12:45.

I'm not sure if any education works here.... :D

Lying?

Submitted by Jim Dandy to th... on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 14:55.

Hmm, so only YOUR anecdotes are true?  Allow me to chuckle derisively, lol, and to take offense at any man who calls me a liar and a snob

How many home-schoolers have you talked to?  How many have expressed to you their frustration in dealing with the compliance issues involved because yes, you have to teach ALL the subjects to your home-schooled kids, and you have to teach them kinda the way they would be taught in public school, and your kids have to pass the same standardized tests that the other kids have to pass?  The dozens I've talked to tell me it kinda takes all the fun out of home schooling.

I'm pretty sure if we could put a man on the oon we can find a way to fix Education.  I don;t want Technocrats, whatever that is, to get haded gobs of taxpayer money, I want succesful schools studied and emulated.  I want Educators making decisions, not CEO's or Congress critters.

Why would the same system work in MIssissippi as would work in Vermont?  Because a good school is a good school is a good school.  Because a good teacher can teach a Mississippi kid as many things as well as a Vermont kid. It's not diffrent Readin Writing or Rithmetic, is it?

And by the way, the most successful school systems in the country, schools in Blue states like VT, MA, NY, NJ, WA,  all have Teachers'  Unions helping their members earn and maintain a living wage and decent working conditions.

In NYC, an 8th grader looking for a High School to attend in 9th grade can attend High School Fairs with his parents and eventually choose from over 1400 different courses of study at over 400 different High Schools.  In NYC, he or she can choose a school with either 1000 or only 100 freshmen, earn CISCO certification with a HS Diploma, earn a Culinary worker's cerificate, even earn college or student-teaching credits before Graduation day.

Things are changing now in many urban public school systems, and Conservatives want to.. well, conserve old biases.

And lastly, GW Bush liberated God knows how many hundreds of thousands of Iraqis from their lives, millions from their homes, millions more from their families, and all for what?  So Iran, where President Nuri Al-Malikii was this week, could tell Iraqi radical Muslim cleric Muqtada Al-Sadr to  order his fanatics to take reprisals against US soldiers yesterday because Iran and he didn't like the way we are dealing with the Palestinian-Israeli conflict?

Talk about Kool-aid.

Don't be fooled by edubabble...

Submitted by Cahnman on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 15:06.

...the New York City public schools remain a disaster. 

Don't get me started on my cousin who retired from the NYC school system at full salary after only 15 years because she lied to the union about being attacked by one of her students.

Interesting link...

Submitted by Jim Dandy to th... on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 16:53.

But please show me where the "disaster"  part is.  According to all accepted metrics, the NYC Public School System remains in the top third of all school systems nationwide, as it has for years.

Oh, and I believe your cousin should have been prosecuted for fraud.

The Disaster

Submitted by Cahnman on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 19:07.

Black Kids still can't read.

Billions spent on School Construction while School Buildings continue to Crumble.

Not to mention, Bloomy's education myth is based on bogus statistics.

Yes, lying.

Submitted by chemjeff on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 21:53.

Because you initially said that homeschoolers want to bulldoze government schools.  And the only real people who take that position are the hard-core libertarians and there just aren't enough of them around.  But, I completely understand how you might come to that viewpoint if you have drunk the teachers' union Kool-Aid.  Here is how it works:

1. Teachers' unions are defined to be noble, just, and fair, with motives beyond reproach.  (As you say, they are just sticking up for the downtrodden overworked teachers.  Nothing more, really.  What's all that teachers' union PAC money?  Nothing to see.  Not important.)

2. If people have complaints with teachers' unions, it can't really be with what the teachers' unions are doing, because that can't be questioned.  (See #1.)  So complaints about teachers' unions are just right-wing code for "bulldozing public schools".

3. And homeschoolers who take their kids out because of those complaints - well, they are just the worst anti-public-school right-wing ideological extremists.  They are the ones who actually have the bulldozers gassed up and ready to go.

And if you spend your whole time with teachers' union friends, and if you don't really listen to the critiques of the public schools offered by those willing to go the homeschooling route, then you continually remain in this left-wing bubble of opinion about public education.  I don't doubt, actually, that you probably talk to dozens of homeschoolers about their experiences.  No doubt you are the one who tries to talk them out of it.  No doubt you are the one who prepares reports and writes memos focusing only on the negative side of homeschooling, because you believe it's not in their best interest.  You believe undereducated parents can't do the same quality job of teaching as trained professionals.  The problem is that you don't really see homeschooling for what it is - as a protest vote against the problems in our current public education system.  For the most part, though, it is not a protest against public education itself - that is just you projecting your liberal bias on them.  Hell most of the homeschooling parents that you see probably went to public schools themselves but they simply don't see in our current system the same quality and dedication to actual education that they enjoyed in theirs.

Why would the same system work in MIssissippi as would work in Vermont?  Because a good school is a good school is a good school.

Vermont kids are different than Mississippi kids.  And education is not just a black box that you can plant down anywhere on the planet and expect it to run smoothly.

I want Educators making decisions, not CEO's or Congress critters.

If schools are run by government, then politicians will make the decisions about schools.  If schools are run by private companies, then the company's CEO will make the decisions about schools.  If you truly just want educators to make the decisions about schools, then the only way to guarantee that is to homeschool.  Kinda ironic isn't it.

No, not lying.

Submitted by Jim Dandy to th... on Sat, 01/10/2009 - 13:22.

You're an angry, bitter person with issues I have no idea how to resolve.  But to keep the record clear, I never "defined" Teachers' Unions.

If you need a definition, it's a group of people elected to represent the interests of teachers at the bargaining tables with the people teachers work for, be they public schools, colleges, trade schools, wherever teachers get a paycheck for a day's work teaching.

Are there abuses of the power collective bargaining brings?  Sure, there are abuses everywhere there's goodies being handed out.  But without Teachers' Unions, the lot of teachers would be very different indeed.  Where there's abuse, all teachers want it rooted out and killed.  But I will not dismantle Unions just because someone's sister lied to the Disability Board and scored a bigger pension than she deserved.

And until you've heard the door close behind you in a classroom with 35 rabid 7th graders in a big-city ghetto somewhere, you are not entitled to discuss how much teachers should get paid for a day's work, or how they should receive their "combat" pay.

As to home-schooling, I have no problem with people who choose to home school.  It's a free country.  I just want to make sure they don't leave it up to the public school system to correct gaps and holes in their kids' education later on when they fail standardized testing, and as long as they observe the rules and regulations and do not hurt their kids' futures.

If you have the eight hours a day free, and you are knowledgeable enough and capable of thoroughly teaching your kid Chemistry, Physics, Earth Science, Trigonometry, Pre-Calculus, Global History, American History, English Grammar, English and Comparative Literature, the Arts, Physical Education, Biology, Health and Hygiene, Economics, Business Law, Advanced Algebra, and French, which were just some of the courses I passed with Honors at my NYC Public High School, more power to ya.

And if you can't, you shouldn't.

great--ebonics for all!

Submitted by RisingTide on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 11:35.

(or the equivalent for other dialects. you get my point, jack?)

[the serious truth is that treating dialects as a sort of quasi second language instruction -- where you teach both standard and Black Standard English at the same time, seems to improve reading performance]

familiar

Submitted by DanielleSommers on Mon, 05/11/2009 - 05:10.

Coming from one who is in the education arena, I find these figures interesting. I based it on the growing number of students who are dropping out of high school, what about those figures? What about the figures of students taking their GED and failing that as well? Our educational system needs an overhaul but the big GOV won't give it any time of day when you have 2 wars being fought and not too mention many other things going on with the economy and such. It's the old, "sweep it under the rug" philosophy. Good thing there's websites that give online GED prep direction like http://www.gedonline.us among others. Seems this will be the direction that students will take in the short and long term.

Apparently you were absent...

Submitted by centerfire on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 14:56.

the day they taught law in law school.

Yes, the Preamble to the Constitution does speak of "promoting the General Welfare" and "securing the blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity", which are excellent arguments in favor of an explicit duty of our Government to educate our posterity.

Unfortunately those "excellent arguments in favor of an explicit duty of our government to educate our posterity" contained in the Preamble, which has no force as law, run afoul of the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, which restrict the federal government to specific enumerated powers. I search my copy of the Constitution in vain for a specific enumerated power to create a mammoth bureaucracy overseeing education.

If the states want to be education providers, that's their business, but the federal government has no mandate here. As for the Fourteenth Amendment, it does require equality of access within a single jurisdiction (i.e., State A cannot offer education to some people but not others similarly situated), but it does not require inter-jurisdictional equality of access (State B does not have to offer education, or a certain quality of education, merely because State A does), nor does it require equality of outcome.

And yes, the absolute best and only proper thing to do at this point, to rescue the country's children from a lifetime of appalling ignorance, is to bulldoze every government youth propaganda camp/public school in the country and start over by recognizing as a first principle that people in this country were on the whole far better educated -- and, just as importantly, far freer -- before the advent of the compulsory public education regime explicitly modeled on the 19th-century Prussian system.

 

Bulldozing

Submitted by Jim Dandy to th... on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 16:50.

I laugh, and I rest my case on bulldozing.  Could you pass the word to Chemjeff up there?  He seems to think I made this bulldozing thing up.

Please take your argument regarding the 14th Amendment and its Educational implications to your law professor, and ask him or her to evaluate it in light of the landmark SCOTUS decision in the case of Brown v Board of Education in 1954.  It was precisely the 14th Amendment that resulted in the dismantling of "separate-but-equal"  Educational systems in all the Southern states.

Let me know what they say, OK?

As to the " enumerated powers" business, you and I both know that particular article has been the cause of a great Civil War, among other nasties.  It is simply not even raised anymore, except by Conservatives, Libertarians, and States'  Righters who would very much like a Confederate States of America rather than our current Union.

Marbury v Madison, Plessy v Ferguson, Santa Clara Co. v Southern Pacific, Brown v Bd Of Ed, so many places where the Constitution's "Enumerated Powers"  principle has had to take a back seat to the 14th Amendment...

Shrug.

Submitted by centerfire on Tue, 01/13/2009 - 21:43.

I laugh

Imbeciles frequently giggle uncontrollably.

He seems to think I made this bulldozing thing up.

You did.  The Republican party does not embrace the idea of bulldozing the government youth propaganda camps/public schools.  I, however, do.

Let me know what they say, OK?

They said I was right, and you're a blithering idiot who demonstrably hasn't ever read the Brown holding.  Brown mandated intra-jurisdictional equality of access.  States may not discriminate against similarly situated students within that state, as by establishing separate but ostensibly equal schools for blacks and whites.  Brown did not mandate inter-jurisdictional equality of access (i.e., that every state has to provide the same access to education), nor did it mandate equality of opportunity.  Like I said.

As to the " enumerated powers" business, you and I both know that particular article has been the cause of a great Civil War, among other nasties.  It is simply not even raised anymore, except by Conservatives, Libertarians, and States'  Righters who would very much like a Confederate States of America rather than our current Union.

Apparently U.S. v. Lopez was either a figment of my imagination, or a product of neo-Confederatism?

Marbury v Madison, Plessy v Ferguson, Santa Clara Co. v Southern Pacific, Brown v Bd Of Ed, so many places where the Constitution's "Enumerated Powers"  principle has had to take a back seat to the 14th Amendment...

Nah.  Just a lot of places where you don't have the faintest fucking idea what you're talking about.

 

umm. i knew one ideological high school teacher

Submitted by RisingTide on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 16:49.

he was Republican, and anti-Darwinist.

Can we please kick the social studies teachers who think that epicamphal folds came from squinting out of our educational system?

Sorry, it still drives me up a wall.

Yes!

Submitted by Jim Dandy to th... on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 16:56.

Epicanthic, and pedantic gotta go.

 

Roll, Tide!!  I love ya. Do you really live in ' Bama?

nah, I'm from pennsyltucky

Submitted by RisingTide on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 17:04.

home of the KKK (okay, that wasn't my home town, but it was close enough)

This is what a lot of

Submitted by arnaldroy23 on Mon, 04/06/2009 - 01:56.

This is what a lot of European school systems do, actually, and is undoubtedly one reason why they are kicking our butts in math and science. accredited high school diploma  From what I understand, at about the 9th or 10th grade, students specialize in their education.  Their next two years are then heavily focused in their specialization.  So a student who specialized in the sciences would only take classes in chemistry, physics, math, biology - no more literature or arts.

high school online | homeschooling

If only.

Submitted by centerfire on Thu, 01/08/2009 - 21:40.

Your #1 and #4 are approximately the conservative agenda for education. Your #2 and #3, regrettably, aren't.

If parents of school-age children in every district of the country "know" that NCLB was a conservative effort to eliminate public education funding altogether and wholly privatize K-12 education, that's a reflection of successful Democrat demagoguery, not Republican intentions.

 

teacher spin

Submitted by theophilus 2 on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 13:08.

NCLB is typical of DC.   It didn't do what it was supposed to, it was a good try and it was a top down solution. It was also sponsored by Kennedy, so it is hard to simply lay that at the feet of W. 

Here's to bottoms up.

Allow school to be a choice.  You cannot teach students who do not want to learn.

Allow students to get a technical education starting in the tenth grade.  This allows good kids to be able to provide for theif families without pretending to understand Beowulf.  I'm leaving teaching to make significantly more money at a job which only requires a high school education.

Pick a merit based pay plan.  Additionally (starting base pay) pay counselors 10% more than teachers and principals 15% more than teachers.  Allow really good teachers to earn more than a principal.

Allow schools to permanently kick students out of school.

Create a balance of power between teachers, parents, students and principals.  Right now, un-unionized teachers have no clout.

Finally, if our high schools are so aweful, why do people travel the globe to attend our colleges?

 

technical education

Submitted by chemjeff on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 13:18.

Allow students to get a technical education starting in the tenth grade.

This is what a lot of European school systems do, actually, and is undoubtedly one reason why they are kicking our butts in math and science.  From what I understand, at about the 9th or 10th grade, students specialize in their education.  Their next two years are then heavily focused in their specialization.  So a student who specialized in the sciences would only take classes in chemistry, physics, math, biology - no more literature or arts.  In essence their last two years of highschool are like the first two years of undergraduate college here.  The biggest downfall that I see is that in the European system at least, once you've picked one specialization it's really hard to switch later on, so this system presumes that students are capable of picking their future career plans as early as 10th grade.  It also does not tend to lead to a broadly educated student.  But, I say it's worth a try in this country.

beowulf? you're citing beowulf as what it's hard to understand??

Submitted by RisingTide on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 16:52.

that's an easy book, fer goodnes sakes!

Now Hamlet -- or really most Shakespeare?

Our high schools are designed to churn out people for factories, that is why they emphasise learning things by rote and absolute obedience to higher authority.

Our colleges are designed to create an elite. they do. the better question is why do Americans achieve more in college than other students?

Couple things

Submitted by The Last Rockef... on Mon, 05/11/2009 - 05:51.

Allow schools to permanently kick students out of school.

In this age of state and federal standardized tests, where money and job retention depends entirely or in part on the school getting a passing grade? That's begging for abuse.

Finally, if our high schools are so aweful, why do people travel the globe to attend our colleges?

Our secondary and tertiary education systems have little to no administrative links to each other (thank God.) The hybrid state/private funding system we have, as well as the huge range of sizes, specializations, and types of administration (public, secular private and religious), gives us an vast advantage over the mostly state-funded universities elsewhere in the developed world.

Tech Ed

Submitted by theophilus 2 on Fri, 01/09/2009 - 14:14.

Actually, I had a broader idea in mind.  While I like the European idea, I think kids could also decide to be an air condition repairman.  I should have labeled it a trade education.  Either idea I think is better than this "one size fits all" approach we have taken here in the US.

Societal participation in

Submitted by chrisawalik on Wed, 04/22/2009 - 01:02.

Societal participation in educational reform projects creates needed public understanding ( Doctorate Degree ) of the reasons, importance and objectives of reform. The reform, in turn, should be in harmony with society’s needs, visions and expectations for a better education for its children, which is vital to making members of the public enthusiastic supporters of change. On the contrary, dealing with reform projects only at the level of educational specialists can provoke a great deal ( Online Masters Degree ) of controversy about the feasibility and importance of the project. In such situations, voices of anger may be heard from parents who will doubt the suitability and importance of such projects for the future of their children.

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